| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| MCoopland |
Posted - 13 Jun 2012 : 21:45:59
& banned from competition.
Is time running out on Lance or are they really all just out to get the poor guy?
Martin Coopland
www.crotchguard.co.uk
Crap name - great product!
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| jockanese |
Posted - 08 Jul 2012 : 11:35:44
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Steve McGinty[/i]
[br]As a slight aside - this is an excellent article on Henry C�rdenas, a Colombian pro from the late '80s and the impact of EPO on the pro-peloton in the '90s.
http://www.cyclinginquisition.com/2012/06/victories-disappointments-and-how-epo.html
"All of a sudden, many patacones [which literally means fried plantains], as we used to call the faceless riders who were pack filler, started leaving us behind in the mountains. On the flat, the speeds became became astonishing. In one stage that was completely flat, without as much as an overpass or bridge, my speedometer read 50 miles an hour (80km/hr). I simply couldn't believe it, so I went to a teammate and asked to look at his speedometer. They all showed the same, we were really going 50 miles an hour."
"We couldn't win. We'd won the Dauphine, the Vuelta, stages in grand tours�and suddenly we were coming in 30th. People don't like that. That's no good to a sponsor. But people didn't realize that the speeds in the peloton had become absolutely inhuman. On the flats it was insane, on the big climbs it could be 25 miles an hour (40 km/hr) or even more. It was impossible to even stay on their wheel."
Great read that Steve, cheers.
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| grantus |
Posted - 07 Jul 2012 : 22:31:27
not in my book eithermartin but he lost his bike brand and armstrongs clan had him painted as a jealous alcoholic. didnt armstrong also try to muddy the waters and suggest lemond used epo in the early nineties which eventually resulted in lemond retracting statements under intense pressure that he'd previously made against armstrong.
lemond is.a.legend in my book. not so much for cycling but for his courage in standing up as much as he could to the armstrong machine when it was career suicide to do it |
| MCoopland |
Posted - 07 Jul 2012 : 21:08:56
quote:
[i]Originally posted by grantus[/i]
[br]those riders who cut a deal - if true - are despicable in my opinion. I'd hardly credit them with telling the truth either and if they had no choice in the matter then why make a.deal? where were they when lemond had his reputation ruined or the likes of bassons were ridiculed out of the game? if that is how it's panned out then they are worse than armstrong in my opinion. no honour amongst thieves.
have I missed something. When did lemond's repuation get trashed. not in my book. Was he in yours? People tried to sling mud at him, but it didn't stick.
Martin Coopland
www.crotchguard.co.uk
Crap name - great product!
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| grantus |
Posted - 07 Jul 2012 : 20:33:48
i'd like to think i wouldnt but you cant sayfor sure unless you are put in that position. Dont dispute testimonies and i believe frankie andreu and his missus as well for what its worth but it looks to me like these guys are going to get off relatively lightly for their part in things as they near the end of ther careers. of course that is if they do indeed only receive a 6-month delayed ban at the end of the season. easy to tell the truth when the stakes arent so high |
| FrenchDave |
Posted - 07 Jul 2012 : 13:24:08
quote:
[i]Originally posted by grantus[/i]
[br]those riders who cut a deal - if true - are despicable in my opinion. I'd hardly credit them with telling the truth either and if they had no choice in the matter then why make a.deal? where were they when lemond had his reputation ruined or the likes of bassons were ridiculed out of the game? if that is how it's panned out then they are worse than armstrong in my opinion. no honour amongst thieves.
There are 2 examples of exactly why they stayed quiet. Lemond had his bike company run down by Trek and has been branded a fantasist. Bassons was bullied out of the sport. They wanted to keep their jobs, you'd have done the same Grant. Interested to hear why you wouldn't believe Hincapie's testimony. |
| Steve McGinty |
Posted - 07 Jul 2012 : 12:25:26
As a slight aside - this is an excellent article on Henry C�rdenas, a Colombian pro from the late '80s and the impact of EPO on the pro-peloton in the '90s.
http://www.cyclinginquisition.com/2012/06/victories-disappointments-and-how-epo.html
"All of a sudden, many patacones [which literally means fried plantains], as we used to call the faceless riders who were pack filler, started leaving us behind in the mountains. On the flat, the speeds became became astonishing. In one stage that was completely flat, without as much as an overpass or bridge, my speedometer read 50 miles an hour (80km/hr). I simply couldn't believe it, so I went to a teammate and asked to look at his speedometer. They all showed the same, we were really going 50 miles an hour."
"We couldn't win. We'd won the Dauphine, the Vuelta, stages in grand tours�and suddenly we were coming in 30th. People don't like that. That's no good to a sponsor. But people didn't realize that the speeds in the peloton had become absolutely inhuman. On the flats it was insane, on the big climbs it could be 25 miles an hour (40 km/hr) or even more. It was impossible to even stay on their wheel."
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| grantus |
Posted - 06 Jul 2012 : 22:34:11
those riders who cut a deal - if true - are despicable in my opinion. I'd hardly credit them with telling the truth either and if they had no choice in the matter then why make a.deal? where were they when lemond had his reputation ruined or the likes of bassons were ridiculed out of the game? if that is how it's panned out then they are worse than armstrong in my opinion. no honour amongst thieves. |
| grantus |
Posted - 06 Jul 2012 : 22:26:42
those riders who cut a deal - if true - are despicable in my opinion. I'd hardly credit them with telling the truth either and if they had no choice in the matter then why make a.deal? where were they when lemond had his reputation ruined or the likes of bassons were ridiculed out of the game? if that is how it's panned out then they are worse than armstrong in my opinion. no honour amongst thieves. |
| FrenchDave |
Posted - 06 Jul 2012 : 22:02:10
quote:
[i]Originally posted by grantus[/i]
[br]if this is true and they have done a deal then it must give.credence to armstrong's claims of a witch-hunt.
I would consider myself to be definitely NOT a fan of armstrong but ifhis is truethen these guys are despicable. to coin a phrase armstrong may use himself "fu*king trolls"...
Who is despicable? USADA for doing their job or his ex-team mates for telling the truth?
USADA had a ton of evidence dumped on their desk from a federal investigation so the witness statements of his team mates were probably already in there. His team mates faced prison for lying to the investigation so were not exactly bursting the door down to shop Armstrong. |
| CarlosFerreiro |
Posted - 06 Jul 2012 : 15:15:58
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Steve McGinty[/i]
[br]So - apparently Hincapie, Leipheimer, Vande Velde and Zabriskie have all admitted d0ping and implicated LA....
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-hincapie-leipheimer-vande-velde-zabriskie-vaughters-give-evidence-against-armstrong
Remembering it's a story with no real facts coming from the paper that JB does a column for...... |
| Steve McGinty |
Posted - 06 Jul 2012 : 08:34:47
Remember the identities of the witnesses in the case were/are being kept secret to "prevent intimidation" - so if they had all been stopped from riding it would have been a bit obvious...
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| grantus |
Posted - 06 Jul 2012 : 07:34:15
if this is true and they have done a deal then it must give.credence to armstrong's claims of a witch-hunt.
I would consider myself to be definitely NOT a fan of armstrong but ifhis is truethen these guys are despicable. to coin a phrase armstrong may use himself "fu*king trolls"... |
| MCoopland |
Posted - 05 Jul 2012 : 21:51:17
Is Gus still reading this thread?
If you are Gus, would the testomony of Hincapie, Leipheimer, Vande Velde and Zabriskie, under oath convince you that LA is not as clean as you believe he is?
Martin Coopland
www.crotchguard.co.uk
Crap name - great product!
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| team-Z |
Posted - 05 Jul 2012 : 21:38:26
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Steve McGinty[/i]
[br][quote][i]Originally posted by team-Z[/i]
[br]If these guys have all admitted using peds why are they riding the tour? Surely they should be out on their ears...
Looks like they've "done a deal" - only a six month suspension to be taken in the off season - and they don't ride the 'lympics
Yeah I get that but surely that shouldn't happen, deals send out the wrong message. Armstrong tweeted about a vendetta and it's hard to argue with that! |
| jockanese |
Posted - 05 Jul 2012 : 19:08:55
quote:
[i]Originally posted by frenkmcginty[/i]
[br]and anyway...where do you draw the line about enhanced performances...i've just necked a can of red bull and feel ready to take on mike tyson and cameron diaz in consecutive bouts...frenklyfantasising
Frenk I suggest Cameron first as I dont think the other way round would be much fun! |
| Steve McGinty |
Posted - 05 Jul 2012 : 18:10:40
quote:
[i]Originally posted by team-Z[/i]
[br]If these guys have all admitted using peds why are they riding the tour? Surely they should be out on their ears...
Looks like they've "done a deal" - only a six month suspension to be taken in the off season - and they don't ride the 'lympics
quote:
this is going to become nearly as mind numbingly interesting as newco/club 12.
http://www.pieandbovril.com/ ;)
C'moan the wee diddy teams!!!
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| team-Z |
Posted - 05 Jul 2012 : 17:52:04
If these guys have all admitted using peds why are they riding the tour? Surely they should be out on their ears...
this is going to become nearly as mind numbingly interesting as newco/club 12. |
| Steve McGinty |
Posted - 05 Jul 2012 : 13:32:29
So - apparently Hincapie, Leipheimer, Vande Velde and Zabriskie have all admitted d0ping and implicated LA....
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-hincapie-leipheimer-vande-velde-zabriskie-vaughters-give-evidence-against-armstrong
Still no positive test tho'...
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| frenkmcginty |
Posted - 24 Jun 2012 : 19:48:05
and anyway...where do you draw the line about enhanced performances...i've just necked a can of red bull and feel ready to take on mike tyson and cameron diaz in consecutive bouts...frenklyfantasising |
| frenkmcginty |
Posted - 24 Jun 2012 : 18:22:21
what kinda eyesight is required to feel proper indignation...colonelblinkmcginty |
| G13MTB |
Posted - 24 Jun 2012 : 10:21:31
Very interesting link here showing Lances business connections.
http://cyclismas.com/2012/06/lance-armstrongs-business-links-a-flowchart-by-dimspace/
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| FrenchDave |
Posted - 23 Jun 2012 : 14:41:28
quote:
[i]Originally posted by snoeasy[/i]
[br]OK Steve, but I thought a part of the fraud was also to do with using Federal Money (US Postal Money) to purchase performing enhancing drugs thereby defrauding US Postal? If the FBI did not see a future in that then the evidence must be flaky.
If they can't connect the money USPS gave them to the fraud then there is no case for them to make. Armstrong is doing his usual misinformation campaign bu telling people the feds found there was no evidence of his doping when in fact the opposite is true which is why they past all the evidence to the relevant authority (USADA).
So what we are seeing is just the findings from the investigation being pursued by the relevant authority which is not the FBI as doping in sport is not a federal crime in the US. |
| bob b |
Posted - 21 Jun 2012 : 20:21:48
[quote][i]Originally posted by ianj[/i]
[br]Anyone who thinks cycling isn't big in the US should think again, or just come here and check out the facts. I live now in Long Beach, which has hundreds of competitive cyclists and is about the same size as Edinburgh. And people here spend a fortune on their bikes.
the discussion wasn't about the popularity of cycling in the us, but about the influence that the us has on professional cycling.
the point that i was trying to make was that if armstrong is found guilty of any doping charges, then the place were it should be have the biggest effect is the pro ranks, but i don't see that happening. |
| MCoopland |
Posted - 20 Jun 2012 : 15:03:16
quote:
[i]Originally posted by snoeasy[/i]
[br]OK Steve, but I thought a part of the fraud was also to do with using Federal Money (US Postal Money) to purchase performing enhancing drugs thereby defrauding US Postal? If the FBI did not see a future in that then the evidence must be flaky.
Not really. The sponsor ship money may be well very accounted for. Other monies (personal) may have been used to procure drugs. You are hardly likely to raise a Purchase order and then write a cheque for a stash of gear.
Interesting to hear that LA is aledged to have paid Dr Ferrari Euro 450 000 for a year's worth of training plans.
That is not to say that I think any of the allogations are true. I have an open mind.
Martin Coopland
www.crotchguard.co.uk
Crap name - great product!
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| snoeasy |
Posted - 20 Jun 2012 : 14:20:17
OK Steve, but I thought a part of the fraud was also to do with using Federal Money (US Postal Money) to purchase performing enhancing drugs thereby defrauding US Postal? If the FBI did not see a future in that then the evidence must be flaky. |
