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Ivan
Speed Merchant

731 Posts

Posted - 05 Nov 2008 :  13:24:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Graham McG[/i]
[br]Wonder where these Eastern Bloc athletes ended up? Some dingy flat at the back of an industrial estate nursing Hep B with all the stuff that was shoved into them, forgotten by everyone (except Ivan ): or are they living it up in luxury dachas on the Crimean Coast still feted by their former paymasters? Suspect the former.

Ivan why are you so interested in the Peace Race, Slovakia and eastern Bloc riders? Not a dig, I'm genuinely interested.

PS. Remember a headline from Pro News in the '80s when a Soviet squad rode the Tour of Luxembourg and totally destoyed a field of pros including among others Sean Kelly - the headline was 'Russians Murder Pros'



It`s difficult to say what has become of them , several of the best riders are now in coaching , administration , or run bike shops , but I do suspect that the majority of the second-level riders are simply living out their lives , neither rich nor poor.
Antonin Bartonicek ( 6 stage wins in PR ) and Vlastimil Moravec ( PR winner in `72 ) from CZ are bike shop owners , as is Stanislaw Krolak ( first Polish PR winner ), Szurkowski and Czeslaw Lang are organisers of the Tour de Pologne , Tadeusz Mytnik of Poland is also involved in race organisation. Thomas Barth ( several PR stage wins and team classifications ) from the ex-DDR is involved with the Peace Race organisation , Ludwig was , until recently , in team management.
Aleksandr Gussiatnikov and Yuri Kashirin ( both Soviet PR stalwarts ) are presidents of the Russian and Canadian Cycling Federations , respectively. Taeve Schur ( double World Champion and PR winner ) was involved in politics , is now retired but is chairman of the Peace Race Foundation. But one of the PR greats , Viktor Kapitanov , winner of many PR stages and Olympic RR Champion from 1960 , died in poverty.
I`m interested in the PR because it is one of the most fascinating sporting events of the 20th century , it had everything , fantastic sporting spectacle , huge crowds , a vehicle for propaganda and ideology , it was hugely politicised. It has been largely forgotten , but interest in the race is now growing , when there is sufficient historical distance , a new generation of Poles, Czechs and Slovaks will begin to be interested in it again, The most recent book on the PR was published this year in Poland , the first such book in Polish for 20 years.
The race you refer to was the 1981 Tour of Luxembourg , I don`t have all the info to hand , but the Soviet team won every stage , top 5 on GC and the team , on one stage all the field would have been eliminated except for 9 riders had the organisers applied the time cut-off. On this stage the whole Soviet team , Souko , Barinov , Zagretdinov , Suun and Bokov attacked early on , after 10 km , with Sean Kelly and Johan De Muynck , the Soviets soon dropped Kelly and De Muynck , filled the top 5 places with the peleton at 21 minutes down.


Leve de Wielersport

Edited by - Ivan on 05 Nov 2008 13:36:31
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MCoopland
Speed Limits N/A

1813 Posts

Posted - 05 Nov 2008 :  20:45:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I worked as a waiter in a hotel when i was about 14. The Milk race stayed there one night. It was just about when BMXing was taking off, so the local bike shop put on a display of BMX bikes in the hotel foyer.

The Polish squad, who were staying there, though this was great. They took the bikes and rode them right through the hotel, up and down all the stair cases.

That was the year that the Polish team ripped the race apart. Probably '79 or '80.

Martin Coopland

www.crotchguard.co.uk
Crap name - great product!

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Ivan
Speed Merchant

731 Posts

Posted - 05 Nov 2008 :  21:10:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A little bit of info on why the Peace Race museum wanted Sandy`s contact info. In 1972 when SG rode his first PR , on the 3rd stage from Berlin to Magdeburg , SG and Ian Greenhalgh of the GB team came down about 8 km from the stadium in Magdeburg , SG`s bike was badly damaged , no team car in sight , at that moment a 14-year-old East German boy called Holgar Trenck handed SG his heavy touring bike and pointed in the direction of the finish , only 8 km distant. IG and SG made their way to the finish , IG pushing SG for much of the way. The crowd in the stadium had been informed of the unfolding drama by the stadium speaker , and both riders received a splendid ovation from the 40,000 - strong crowd in the Ernst Gruebe Stadion. Holger Trenck , meanwhile , had been picked up by a race organisation car , and was at the finish to get his bike back from SG. As a reward he was invited to the GB team table for the evening meal. This story made the national press in the ex-DDR , this type of story , the PR riders being helped by spectators , has a long tradition in the PR , being part and parcel of the propaganda of the race ie riders and spectators united in their common desire for peace and solidarity between nations. There have been dozens of such incidents in the PR , the English rider John Woodburn also borrowed a spectator`s bike to finish a stage.

Leve de Wielersport

Edited by - Ivan on 06 Nov 2008 09:56:25
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fuente
Speed Limits N/A

1075 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2008 :  05:14:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ace stories Ivan keep them coming. Raced against Russians East Germans, Poles and Czechs between 78 and 84 they were awesome. I always felt that the East Germans were like a machine dour and miserable except Ludwig who was always destined to be a playboy, the Poles were more "like us" they could still have a laugh and joke. .
The Russians ,Christ they were hard *******s ,I remember finishing the Rhienland Faltz (something spelt like that) for GB and the Russian Milk race team rode it in preperation. They put the field in the gutter on day one and never moved. The neutralised zone was like the Chariot scene from Ben Hurr. At the start of one stage in sleet and rain I was wrapped in clothing Gloves etc and the yellow jersey took off his faded red CCCP jersey for the presentation and all he had was a string vest underneath. Everyone fell about laughing. The same guy had chicken legs in his back pocket and his party piece was doing handstands up a flight of stairs AFTER the stage. Amazing.


Callum Gough
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doc
Speed Merchant

683 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2008 :  11:25:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Martin Coll rode it twice in the late 80s I think and I remember him telling me that towards the end of the one of the races, when he GB team had not won anything, Ludwig pulled out bit of paper and called his name out in the bunch. There were primes through every village and Martin's prime was next on the list! Martin also said that there were brass bands playing through all the villages/towns they passed through.
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Ivan
Speed Merchant

731 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2008 :  18:49:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by doc[/i]
[br]Martin Coll rode it twice in the late 80s I think and I remember him telling me that towards the end of the one of the races, when he GB team had not won anything, Ludwig pulled out bit of paper and called his name out in the bunch. There were primes through every village and Martin's prime was next on the list! Martin also said that there were brass bands playing through all the villages/towns they passed through.


Martin Coll rode in 1987 and 1989 , in 1987 he won a prime on the 6th stage from Most to Prague , Ludwig was second.
With the increasing dominance of the Soviet Bloc countries from the early 70s on , the organisers became more and more aware that this dominance was counter productive , so the race became more " organised " or " choreographed " to produce minor successes for the Western Europeans , there were strict rules , the effort was not to be continued after the prime and nothing was allowed which might lead to GC or team classification changes , any rider who breached the rules would get a bollocking.
Tony Gornall of the GB team won several primes in the `87 race.

Leve de Wielersport
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doc
Speed Merchant

683 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2008 :  20:29:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ian Thomson of the Ivy was I think the GB team manager in '85 with Kenny Clark also of the Ivy in the team. I remember him telling me that there was an individual TT on one stage and the top UK 'tester' of the time, Glen Longland, was also in GB the team and fancied his chances for the stage win. He was absolutely gutted in coming in 31st or 32nd @ 10 mins or so and Ian quite rightly tried to console him in what was a very good ride against these blokes. There might also have been a very hilly stage finish in this edition - memory a bit fuzzy here - and the DDR mechanic drove through the night to East Germany and back to make sure their riders had the right cogs for the climb! Scary stuff.
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Ivan
Speed Merchant

731 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2008 :  21:12:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by doc[/i]
[br]Ian Thomson of the Ivy was I think the GB team manager in '85 with Kenny Clark also of the Ivy in the team. I remember him telling me that there was an individual TT on one stage and the top UK 'tester' of the time, Glen Longland, was also in GB the team and fancied his chances for the stage win. He was absolutely gutted in coming in 31st or 32nd @ 10 mins or so and Ian quite rightly tried to console him in what was a very good ride against these blokes. There might also have been a very hilly stage finish in this edition - memory a bit fuzzy here - and the DDR mechanic drove through the night to East Germany and back to make sure their riders had the right cogs for the climb! Scary stuff.


I think this was the 1987 Peace Race , Glen Longland rode the peace Race in 87 88 and 89 , the stage you`re talking about was a 22km MTT in Harrachov in CZ. Uwe Ampler won the stage , Longland was 113th. Ampler was one of the few riders to ride up the final 500 metres to the summit , the final gradient was 28% , Ampler used a 28T sprocket , most of the field walked up the hill. Ampler used a TT machine before switching to a normal road bike at the bottom of the final climb. Even Soviet riders like Pulnikov , Ugrumov and Konyshev lost nearly a minute to Ampler.
Another Glen , Glen Mitchell , rode the 1981 PR , where he got 3 top 10 stage placings , including a 3rd place behind the Soviet rider Zagretdinov and Olaf Ludwig , some performance !

Leve de Wielersport

Edited by - Ivan on 06 Nov 2008 22:54:47
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Steve McGinty
Speed Limits N/A

1156 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2008 :  07:21:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is great stuff. I don't recall much in-depth coverage of the PR at that time, just the top places and any GB riders. I remember an article (might even have been a TV piece) on Sandy G training for the PR on the High St, up and down to the castle to get used to the cobbles.

In the 70s Sunblest sponsored a two-day up north (Tour of the Grampians). Henry Wilbraham christened it "The Piece Race!"

By all accounts the Tour of Slovakia was a nightmare. I know of guys who unplugged the phone the week before it in case there were any late withdrawals from the team...
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Stev
Gaining Speed

179 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2008 :  13:26:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Don't listen to all those stories about riders hating it, what about all the cheap barums they got to bring back? (for personal use of course...
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Steve McGinty
Speed Limits N/A

1156 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2008 :  14:43:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Stev[/i]
[br]Don't listen to all those stories about riders hating it, what about all the cheap barums they got to bring back? (for personal use of course...

Anyone else remember a Russian tubeless tub from that era? (or am I havering???)
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fuente
Speed Limits N/A

1075 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2008 :  14:49:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Barums were ok . Anyone get some of them bad russian w******bar tubs they were about 2" thick and glued on like a snake.
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fuente
Speed Limits N/A

1075 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2008 :  15:03:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ivan

Just read the imortal words Drogan in one of your posts. He was an animal and if he had been able to turn pro in his early days would surely have been a legend in the West. I have never seen anyone suffer like that guy he almost whimpered like a dog, he even scared the Russians. He got overlooked a bit because he wasnt as charismatic as Ludwig. He had a face like a halloween mask .


Callum
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Ivan
Speed Merchant

731 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2008 :  12:30:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by fuente[/i]
[br]Ivan

Just read the imortal words Drogan in one of your posts. He was an animal and if he had been able to turn pro in his early days would surely have been a legend in the West. I have never seen anyone suffer like that guy he almost whimpered like a dog, he even scared the Russians. He got overlooked a bit because he wasnt as charismatic as Ludwig. He had a face like a halloween mask .


Callum



Drogan`s greatest victory was at Goodwood in `82 where he triumphed after a 45 km lone escape , he also won 4 PR stages , PR team classification , the Tour of Slovakia , Tour of the DDR , twice WC in the 100 TTT.
He also crossed swords with our own Robert Miller in the WC at Valkenburg in `79 , he and RM were away with the Italian Giacometi and the Pole Jankiewicz on the final lap , Millar pulled his foot out of the pedal on the last climb of the Cauburg , lost contact , got back on at 1 km to go , attacked immediately , Drogan brought him back , and Giacometi won , Drogan 3rd and RM 4th.
I remember an interview with RM after the race , RM said that while away in the break he almost sat up such was the pain caused by Drogan`s and Jankiewicz`s tempo.
I think Drogan is now a DS with an amateur team.

Leve de Wielersport

Edited by - Ivan on 09 Nov 2008 14:40:56
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fuente
Speed Limits N/A

1075 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2008 :  13:44:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was at Goodwood when he won the worlds, It was some ride because as I remember he never had a significant lead as the bunch was travelling at 28mph plus in the last hour . Think about it lads almost 30mile or Ihour plus away on your own in the World Championships with thebest riders in the world breathing down your neck,its bloody awesome! He barely had the strength to lift his arm as he crossed the line as he was so nearly caught. These guys could put themselves through some pain, then again can you imagine being in a 100k team time trial with Drogen, Boden, Ludwig et al. Rather have teeth out.
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Ivan
Speed Merchant

731 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2008 :  14:38:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by fuente[/i]
[br]I was at Goodwood when he won the worlds, It was some ride because as I remember he never had a significant lead as the bunch was travelling at 28mph plus in the last hour . Think about it lads almost 30mile or Ihour plus away on your own in the World Championships with thebest riders in the world breathing down your neck,its bloody awesome! He barely had the strength to lift his arm as he crossed the line as he was so nearly caught. These guys could put themselves through some pain, then again can you imagine being in a 100k team time trial with Drogen, Boden, Ludwig et al. Rather have teeth out.


This is almost a direct quote from Olaf Ludwig in his book , where he talks about the greatest TTT in his career , his whole career , not just the DDR period.

" I`ve ridden loads of TTTs , eg in Post`s Panasonic team , and the Telekom team , but the greatest TTT performance of my career was the 4-up TTT in Prague in 1981 , where we ( Mario Kummer , Bernd Drogan , Falk Boden and Ludwig ) won the WCs against the Olympic Champions , the USSR. We were under a bit of pressure because the Soviets started just behind us , but we held a tempo of more than 50 km per hour for 100 km , beating them comfortably. As we finished , I said to Kummer , who was riding his first TTT with us , Remember this day , this will be the performance of your life ".

Leve de Wielersport

Edited by - Ivan on 09 Nov 2008 14:42:59
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jockanese
Speed Limits N/A

2015 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2008 :  07:51:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dont say too much here Ivan, or you wont have anything left for your book. There is one in there.
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Ivan
Speed Merchant

731 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2008 :  10:20:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by jockanese[/i]
[br]Dont say too much here Ivan, or you wont have anything left for your book. There is one in there.



You could be right , Jock , but I`m not making the mistake of assuming that knowing a lot about a subject , even the Peace Race , is the same as being able to write a decent book about it.
When I get some time , I`ll post some info , comment etc on Ian Steel`s great victory in 1952 , including his team mate from the Comet RC , Ian Greenfield from Edinburgh.

Leve de Wielersport
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jockanese
Speed Limits N/A

2015 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2008 :  16:52:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ivan, there are lots of books around by people who have'nt a clue what they are writing about, you know more than enough for a very good book.
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frenkmcginty
Speed Limits N/A

1379 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2008 :  18:47:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i've loved reading this stuff and i agree that it would make a great book go for it its not THAT hard i'll buy one when you do it good luck
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Gordon Goldie
Speed Limits N/A

1162 Posts

Posted - 13 Nov 2008 :  07:46:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Brilliant! I could read this sort of stuff all day Ivan
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David Jack
Crusing Past

207 Posts

Posted - 13 Nov 2008 :  09:56:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Daily Worker and The Daily Herald,another very left wing paper were the only dailies that gave any real coverage to cycling in the fifties and early sixties.I used them both to follow Ken Lailaw's progress in the PR.My old man used to accuse me of being "a commy"aggravated when he found the National Clarion handbook once which laid out its lefty leanings.Both rags gave the only daily reports of the efforts of Brian Robinson,Shay Elliot and of "Independant" races "down south".You have started a great thread Ivan,keep it going.
BJ

BJ
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Ivan
Speed Merchant

731 Posts

Posted - 13 Nov 2008 :  20:01:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As Ian Steel said himself , only a film could give people some idea of how monumental an event the PR was.
Have a look at this site , there are dozens of PR foto`s , including one of the 1952 GB team at the finish in Prague , in the colossal Sparta Stadium. The foto is on page 4 , the team has just finished the final stage , Ian Steel is yellow , the others in blue , believe it or not , 225,000 people were in the stadium to see IS win .

Go to http://www.ullsteinbild.de

Put * Friedensfahrt * in the box * Suchbegriffe * , then * Suche starten *. There are 5 pages in all , IS and team on page 4

Leve de Wielersport

Edited by - Ivan on 13 Nov 2008 20:14:42
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frenkmcginty
Speed Limits N/A

1379 Posts

Posted - 14 Nov 2008 :  20:39:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
great pictures do you have the one of billy bilsland coming home in his stagewin in the teeming rain?
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Ivan
Speed Merchant

731 Posts

Posted - 14 Nov 2008 :  23:44:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by frenkmcginty[/i]
[br]great pictures do you have the one of billy bilsland coming home in his stagewin in the teeming rain?


I`m afraid I don`t , but I do have a nice one of him having a laugh with DDR rider Axel Peschel , also have one of BB and Gainan Saydushin very near the finish of the stage BB won , these are both in books.
The greatest difficulty in finding foto`s of Scottish and British riders is the obvious one that all the literature on the PR is PL , CZ or DDR , and very few foto`s are included which feature UK riders.
A better source would be the regional or local newspapers in the region where they won stages , for instance , it is impossible that there are no foto`s of BB in the regional newspapers of Liberec , but the difficulty is finding them , but I`m working on these things , and building a network of contacts.
Interestingly , when Ed Hood and I went to see BB a few years ago , BB himself had only a small newspaper cutting of his win in `67 , and nothing more from the PR. He did have some fantastic B/W foto`s of himself in amateur races in France.
If I come across any info on foto`s of Scots in the PR , I`ll post it here.

Leve de Wielersport

Edited by - Ivan on 14 Nov 2008 23:45:21
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