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MCoopland
Speed Limits N/A
1690 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 19:53:00
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by gillan1969[/i]
[br]meanwhile.........on a different planet.....
the olympics and commie games, via our friends in switzerland, had 8 road medals and 8 off-road medals, a hilly rr, a flat one, a hilly tt and hill climb etc....same off road...to reflect the different skills and abilities in the respctive disciplines....
and only 1 track medal
then...lo and behold...we would have no need to spend �xm on a velodrome and buy specialist bikes which you can't use anywhere else and all that cash could go towards the development of the branches of the sport that most people actually participate in, don't need to drive to, and have a bike they can use already...........
oh well........
That is a different tack there Norman.If I understand you, you are saying that the glasgow velodrome is a waste of cash? I couldn't disagree more. I believe that the manchester velodrome was THE catalyste for the resurgence of british cycling. I recon that the track in glasgow could breath MORE life in to scottish cyclung. Here's hoping......
Martin Coopland
www.crotchguard.co.uk
Crap name - great product!
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grantus
Speed Limits N/A
1451 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 20:55:31
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| 100% with martin on that one. think the velodrome will be an amazing legacy of the games |
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Fiona W
Speed Merchant
936 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 22:32:49
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by MCoopland[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by gillan1969[/i]
[br]meanwhile.........on a different planet.....
the olympics and commie games, via our friends in switzerland, had 8 road medals and 8 off-road medals, a hilly rr, a flat one, a hilly tt and hill climb etc....same off road...to reflect the different skills and abilities in the respctive disciplines....
and only 1 track medal
then...lo and behold...we would have no need to spend �xm on a velodrome and buy specialist bikes which you can't use anywhere else and all that cash could go towards the development of the branches of the sport that most people actually participate in, don't need to drive to, and have a bike they can use already...........
oh well........
That is a different tack there Norman.If I understand you, you are saying that the glasgow velodrome is a waste of cash? I couldn't disagree more. I believe that the manchester velodrome was THE catalyste for the resurgence of british cycling. I recon that the track in glasgow could breath MORE life in to scottish cyclung. Here's hoping......
Martin Coopland
www.crotchguard.co.uk
Crap name - great product!
I agree. Manchester was the turning point for British Cycling. Britain now has the world road champion and a TDF contender, both of whom started off as track riders
www.realworldfitnesstraining.co.uk |
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c mcqueen
Learner
19 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 23:55:08
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by MCoopland[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by gillan1969[/i]
[br]meanwhile.........on a different planet.....
the olympics and commie games, via our friends in switzerland, had 8 road medals and 8 off-road medals, a hilly rr, a flat one, a hilly tt and hill climb etc....same off road...to reflect the different skills and abilities in the respctive disciplines....
and only 1 track medal
then...lo and behold...we would have no need to spend �xm on a velodrome and buy specialist bikes which you can't use anywhere else and all that cash could go towards the development of the branches of the sport that most people actually participate in, don't need to drive to, and have a bike they can use already...........
oh well........
That is a different tack there Norman.If I understand you, you are saying that the glasgow velodrome is a waste of cash? I couldn't disagree more. I believe that the manchester velodrome was THE catalyste for the resurgence of british cycling. I recon that the track in glasgow could breath MORE life in to scottish cyclung. Here's hoping......
Martin Coopland
www.crotchguard.co.uk
Crap name - great product!
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STEPHEN T.
Crusing Past
206 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2012 : 07:15:57
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Fiona W[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by MCoopland[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by gillan1969[/i]
[br]meanwhile.........on a different planet.....
the olympics and commie games, via our friends in switzerland, had 8 road medals and 8 off-road medals, a hilly rr, a flat one, a hilly tt and hill climb etc....same off road...to reflect the different skills and abilities in the respctive disciplines....
and only 1 track medal
then...lo and behold...we would have no need to spend �xm on a velodrome and buy specialist bikes which you can't use anywhere else and all that cash could go towards the development of the branches of the sport that most people actually participate in, don't need to drive to, and have a bike they can use already...........
oh well........
That is a different tack there Norman.If I understand you, you are saying that the glasgow velodrome is a waste of cash? I couldn't disagree more. I believe that the manchester velodrome was THE catalyste for the resurgence of british cycling. I recon that the track in glasgow could breath MORE life in to scottish cyclung. Here's hoping......
Martin Coopland
www.crotchguard.co.uk
Crap name - great product!
I agree. Manchester was the turning point for British Cycling. Britain now has the world road champion and a TDF contender, both of whom started off as track riders
Paul Curran and Sean Yates spent much of their early amateur days as track cyclists and went on to be top internationals on road
www.realworldfitnesstraining.co.uk
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gillan1969
Speed Merchant
629 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2012 : 16:35:24
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arguably scotland may benefit disproportionately from the velodromne as the weather is so crap it will be good to compete with other nations on an equal footing.....
just saying that track cycling is the most expensive form of cycling competition there is...roads exist as to do forest tracks and mtb trails can be built with the enthusiasm of a few volunteers..a kids mtb (which if they have a bike it will probably be) can go on or off road....
in addtion to the costs of a velodrome and track bike is the cost of getting to the velodrome...if you live within driving distance that is.....
all for events which remain relatively intangible to the non-cyclsit (omium/points race/kieran)...
merely musing that in efficiency terms if would have been better if all the medals were available on the road and off road...then keen through braislford would have focussed on those and assuming success then funding, as and when it came through from lottery etc, could be spent on other things rather than a velodrome.....
as we will witness with the new olympic stadium...there is great enthusiasm for the provision of large construction contracts from politicians and industry lobbyists...without perhaps thinking through ther use and the ongoing costs [post event)....not that i think the hoy velodrome will be a victim as i think it will get use and be viable....not least becuase of hoy's success
however interesting to note that at the same time as glasgow council are pumping probably �30m of their own money into the velodrome they were stopping one of the cyclo cross SCX races for the potential damage to some grass (estimated repair cost of probably a few hundred quid..assuming there was damage that is and assuming it did need repaired)....there's legacy at work.....
that's not to mention the debacle of the olympic mtb course...that has been built at god knows how much and looks as though it will be taken apart after the games....
the age of austerity indeed.......
for just the cost of running a velodrome for 1 year you could probably provide paid marshalls for 20 first class road events and the motorcycle marshalls....and the prizes...and the house in the belgium...and the....
no point in producing the curranss etc of the future from the track if they can't build on it through a decent domestic road programme... |
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Fiona W
Speed Merchant
936 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2012 : 19:28:33
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Track bikes are actually relatively cheap compared to road bikes and MTBs as they dont have brakes or gears. My track bike is certainly the cheapest of my bike collection. The velodrome will eventually generate money (pretty sure Manchester does) as the centre area is used for lots of other things. Whilst training at Manchester, I've seen it used for indoor rowing, basketball, dancing, majorettes.
I'm not sure how much it would cost to hire the velodrome for a day of racing, but the cost of land use for MTB races can be several hundred pounds.
www.realworldfitnesstraining.co.uk |
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frenkmcginty
Speed Limits N/A
1233 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2012 : 19:44:56
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| i've thought about this question for a while and i'm flinging my hat in the "no" ring based on my experience as a rider.spectator,commmentator,erstwhile expert,part-time specialist.religious fanatic,... ...mahatmaginty |
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nmacleod
Crusing Past
437 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2012 : 20:00:25
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"...mahatmaginty"
the best yet!
Neil Macleod
There is only one constant in life and that is change. |
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gillan1969
Speed Merchant
629 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2012 : 10:25:27
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Fiona W[/i]
[br]Track bikes are actually relatively cheap compared to road bikes and MTBs as they dont have brakes or gears. My track bike is certainly the cheapest of my bike collection. The velodrome will eventually generate money (pretty sure Manchester does) as the centre area is used for lots of other things. Whilst training at Manchester, I've seen it used for indoor rowing, basketball, dancing, majorettes.
I'm not sure how much it would cost to hire the velodrome for a day of racing, but the cost of land use for MTB races can be several hundred pounds.
www.realworldfitnesstraining.co.uk
yeah but you can only use it on the velodrome...a 14 year old kid can use his/her mtb anywhere irrespective of price... |
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Ythan Andy
Setting Off
64 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2012 : 11:49:48
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A mixture of 'anti-track' arguments being offered here.
Track racing is excellent to compete in and to watch, the events like the ominium are actually easier to follow in scoring, than the Heptathlon/Decathlon in Athletics and the UK have been transfixed by Daly Thompson, Jess Ennis when competing.
Not any less 'accessible' than any other form of cycling really, for those either nearby or further afield (how many folk drive from Inverness and Aberdeen to Glasgow for a 10 mile TT - PLENTY!)
A bike is cheap as chips and if drilled for a front brake useable on road as well - for training or racing - TT's at any rate.
Strange attack on the value of a proper velodrome (England has one, Wales has one......Scotland? nah, why would we want what they have?!?)
We have produced some very handy road and track riders in Scotland with a mix of mtb, bmx, road and (crappy outdoor) velodromes, can't see why a state of the art indoor one would hinder that progress - quite the opposite, unless I am missing something?!? |
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Fiona W
Speed Merchant
936 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2012 : 10:15:21
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by gillan1969[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by Fiona W[/i]
[br]Track bikes are actually relatively cheap compared to road bikes and MTBs as they dont have brakes or gears. My track bike is certainly the cheapest of my bike collection. The velodrome will eventually generate money (pretty sure Manchester does) as the centre area is used for lots of other things. Whilst training at Manchester, I've seen it used for indoor rowing, basketball, dancing, majorettes.
I'm not sure how much it would cost to hire the velodrome for a day of racing, but the cost of land use for MTB races can be several hundred pounds.
www.realworldfitnesstraining.co.uk
yeah but you can only use it on the velodrome...a 14 year old kid can use his/her mtb anywhere irrespective of price...
You can use track bike on turbo and rollers, and as andy says also convert it for TTs. You dont even need to buy a track bike as the velodrome has hire bikes, so you can try before you buy. You cant turn up at a road or MTB race and hire a bike to see if you like that style of racing.
I love cycling - road, MTB, cyclo-cross and track. I hate to see "them and us" divisions in cycling like this. The velodrome will benefit cycling in scotland as a whole, not just us "trackies"
www.realworldfitnesstraining.co.uk |
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fuente
Speed Limits N/A
1047 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2012 : 10:45:35
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Fiona W[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by gillan1969[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by Fiona W[/i]
[br]Track bikes are actually relatively cheap compared to road bikes and MTBs as they dont have brakes or gears. My track bike is certainly the cheapest of my bike collection. The velodrome will eventually generate money (pretty sure Manchester does) as the centre area is used for lots of other things. Whilst training at Manchester, I've seen it used for indoor rowing, basketball, dancing, majorettes.
I'm not sure how much it would cost to hire the velodrome for a day of racing, but the cost of land use for MTB races can be several hundred pounds.
www.realworldfitnesstraining.co.uk
yeah but you can only use it on the velodrome...a 14 year old kid can use his/her mtb anywhere irrespective of price...
You can use track bike on turbo and rollers, and as andy says also convert it for TTs. You dont even need to buy a track bike as the velodrome has hire bikes, so you can try before you buy. You cant turn up at a road or MTB race and hire a bike to see if you like that style of racing.
I love cycling - road, MTB, cyclo-cross and track. I hate to see "them and us" divisions in cycling like this. The velodrome will benefit cycling in scotland as a whole, not just us "trackies"
www.realworldfitnesstraining.co.uk
Just get the bums on seats so long as there riding a bike who cares |
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Fiona W
Speed Merchant
936 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2012 : 13:50:13
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Exactly
www.realworldfitnesstraining.co.uk |
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snoeasy
Crusing Past
363 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2012 : 20:45:13
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| Indoor track in the Glasgow area will be a fantastic boost to cycle sport in the West of Scotland. There are lots of guys driving down to Manchester to ride. Do not know what the plans are but if the track was to feature in the schools PE curriculum it would generate a lot of bike racers into other disciplines just look what Triathlon and mountain biking did for cycling. And to get back to the original question,more riders means more competition means more 1st Cat and Elite riders means longer tougher races for top riders, but we still need more clubs willing to promote races. 80 riders are signed up to ride a 45ml APR next weekend. Seems to me that until we have a stronger base of riders that is what the majority of races should be with a "Classic" every month for the the top riders. |
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gillan1969
Speed Merchant
629 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 14:19:23
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sorry if I am being perceived as anti track...as, all other things being equal, any investment in cycling is welcomed by me...I hope to be using the velodrome myself....
I am only questioning the targeting of scare resources based on a historical anomaly of distributing medals to disciplines which very few people take part in and which many people have no access to, as opposed to targeting resources to disciplines which constitute by far the largest participation rates and bike sales...
it appears very inefficient...
if a 13 year old girl (from family with limited means) from Fort William is watching the 'games' on tv and is inspired to take up track cycling are you suggesting its really going to be as easy for her (through local cycling club) to participate in track cycling?
...if however she was watching a few mtb medals or road medals being distributed to team GB all she would have to do is go the garage and then hit the road/trail outside her front door...
it is all bums on seats but like the NHS budget....its not enough just to seek additional funds...you need to know how they are being used now and how they will be used in future...
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grantus
Speed Limits N/A
1451 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 15:52:16
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but she's got the advantage of the Nevis Range on her doorstep so she's got the benefit of a world class mtb facility she can use for free (assuming she's not wanting to go mad on the DH and needs the gondola)virtually every day of the year.
It's all good! |
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doc
Speed Merchant
683 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 16:00:04
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The same can be said for athletics tracks/facilities and swimming pools. How many good training venues of this nature are near FW? They tend to be located near areas of high population. Incidentally, it might not be that bad for her being in FW if the Inverness velodrome comes off.
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frenkmcginty
Speed Limits N/A
1233 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 20:59:23
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| my advice to any 13 year old from fart william [regardless of family wealth and access to world class trails]....is this.....move out as soon as you get the chance.......frenkmcgotout.. |
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mossy
Speed Merchant
978 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2012 : 09:34:02
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And the FW teenager will have yet another advantage, that is ready access to a hole load of grass track races in the numerous highland games.(with cash prizes to help out her families limited means budget).
When she is a bit older she will probably take Frenks advice and move to Glasgow where there will be a super new velodrome where she can make use of the skills learned on the grass track circuit.
But I do agree that the olympics obsession and its skewing towards track events does not reflect the real life cycling scene. For example, what on earth is Thomas thinking of in missing the TdF ? However, I have to admit that I would be far more likely to go to spectate at a velodrome meeting than any other discipline. |
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gillan1969
Speed Merchant
629 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2012 : 20:17:54
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by mossy[/i]
[br]And the FW teenager will have yet another advantage, that is ready access to a hole load of grass track races in the numerous highland games.(with cash prizes to help out her families limited means budget).
When she is a bit older she will probably take Frenks advice and move to Glasgow where there will be a super new velodrome where she can make use of the skills learned on the grass track circuit.
But I do agree that the olympics obsession and its skewing towards track events does not reflect the real life cycling scene. For example, what on earth is Thomas thinking of in missing the TdF ? However, I have to admit that I would be far more likely to go to spectate at a velodrome meeting than any other discipline.
yeah...but in ghent...with leffe |
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Topic |
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Do tougher courses make better bike races?
